Curse

NatalieD · Feb 13, 2006, 02:26 AM // 02:26

20% armor penetration does not mean -20 armor, unless the enemy has AL 100.

Weaken Armor only affects AL vs physical damage, and Judge's Insight makes you not deal physical damage.

Judge's Insight does not treat enemy AL as 60, unless their AL is in fact actually 60. The skill description is misleading, and should say "light" where it says "holy". (If you don't believe me, go test it on the armor dummies like I just did.

)

Misc Merik · Feb 13, 2006, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whitefeather

ha ha, you and me both...
Cause if what -->YOU<-- say is true...

This made me laugh. just love being put on the spot.

I dont know why any semi decent war would wear all knights armor when glads is clearly superior to it. In that case in a war on war fight weaken armor wouldnt do awhole lot it would simply negate the +20 vs physical bonus glads has. No, what I was trying to say is target has 80 armor your attack has "20% armor pen" It would deal a different amount of damage than it would if weaken armor worked and put them at 60 armor vs the same kind of attack with that armor pen bonus going. *chuckles* knights armor F34r me with teh leet knights armor I r got absorption all dyed black with 5 sup vigors and mending +3 healing breeze +7<---mostly stolen from gw chibi.

Misc Merik · Feb 13, 2006, 02:29 AM // 02:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

20% armor penetration does not mean -20 armor, unless the enemy has AL 100.

Weaken Armor only affects AL vs physical damage, and Judge's Insight makes you not deal physical damage.

Judge's Insight does not treat enemy AL as 60, unless their AL is in fact actually 60. The skill description is misleading, and should say "light" where it says "holy". (If you don't believe me, go test it on the armor dummies like I just did.

)

That reminded me of something else I was wondering if holy dmg ignores armor how do you get a 10% armor pen bonus with it kinda contradicts the general theme of armor ignoring holy dmg bit. just a thought.

Whitefeather · Feb 13, 2006, 02:37 AM // 02:37

So judges insight and Penetrating attack with a ranger wouldn't do any more damage than Judges inisght and a regular shot?

AHH, CONFUSION!

NatalieD · Feb 13, 2006, 05:59 AM // 05:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misc Merik

That reminded me of something else I was wondering if holy dmg ignores armor how do you get a 10% armor pen bonus with it kinda contradicts the general theme of armor ignoring holy dmg bit. just a thought.

It is contradictory. The thing is, Judge's Insight lies when it says holy damage. It really means light damage, which doesn't ignore armor but is otherwise like holy damage. (I.e., undead take double damage, necros wearing tormentor's get hurt more.)

Savio · Feb 13, 2006, 06:09 AM // 06:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

It is contradictory. The thing is, Judge's Insight lies when it says holy damage. It really means light damage, which doesn't ignore armor but is otherwise like holy damage. (I.e., undead take double damage, necros wearing tormentor's get hurt more.)

Wrong. Holy damage is the exact same as light damage. The thing is that Holy, Dark, and Chaos (well, there used to be Chaos) damage type skills have an unwritten "ignore armor" effect, like Illusionary Weaponry or Dark Pact. (For IW, the skill is doing the damage, not your weapon.) Weapons, regardless of their damage type, are always affected by armor.

NatalieD · Feb 13, 2006, 07:12 AM // 07:12

...is there anything in the game that could prove either version over the other?

NatalieD · Feb 14, 2006, 07:29 AM // 07:29

That is to say, it sounds like we're agreeing on all the measurable facts and just have a different interpretation of which skills are misleadingly described.

Savio · Feb 14, 2006, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Well... it's more like the effects aren't explained. Weapons always are affected by armor, regardless of their type. If you used Greater Conflagration, if you used Judge's Insight, if you used a wand that has Chaos/Light/Shadow damage, it will always take armor into account.

Elemental-type skills are also affected by armor. Elemental weapons, Elementalist spells, and a few miscellaneous elemental-type skills like Zealot's Fire, cold Necro skills, and Dust Trap, all are affected by armor.

Besides physical and elemental damage, there's this third category of skill damage type which really doesn't have a category name. It includes Chaos (well, there used to be Chaos), Holy/Light, Dark/Shadow, and typeless skills. Pretty much any skill that does damage but doesn't say it deals a type of elemental damage falls into this category and ignores armor. Heck, even Warrior and Ranger skills for the most part fall into this category too.

Judge's Insight only changes weapon type - it doesn't actually do damage by itself - so it falls into the first category. Were it something like Strength of Honor or Illusionary Weaponry where damage is added, then it'd be in the third category and ignore armor.

TeK 23 · Mar 13, 2006, 09:08 PM // 21:08

Now before factions update I had tested Insight and it does stack with others. The damage type is changing (I.E. Cold, Fire, etc...) So it does not get the cool ignore armor. But it's still an extra 20% armor pen.

So a warrior can get:
Sundering 10%
STR: 16%
Pen Blow: 20%
Insight: 20%

Total = 66%

Since it's no longer Physical dmg but holy dmg you only go agenst AL. So lets say u are fighting another war with 80AL (with no bonus/sheild/skills.) you've dropped his AL to 27.2. So that's how you get those great 250+ Dmg hits.

Former Ruling · Mar 14, 2006, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeK 23

Now before factions update I had tested Insight and it does stack with others. The damage type is changing (I.E. Cold, Fire, etc...) So it does not get the cool ignore armor. But it's still an extra 20% armor pen.

So a warrior can get:
Sundering 10%
STR: 16%
Pen Blow: 20%
Insight: 20%

Total = 66%

Since it's no longer Physical dmg but holy dmg you only go agenst AL. So lets say u are fighting another war with 80AL (with no bonus/sheild/skills.) you've dropped his AL to 27.2. So that's how you get those great 250+ Dmg hits.

Insight stacks with others just fine - Its Pen. Blow that doesn't stack.

Penatrating Blow/Shot don't stack with any other pen. giving buffs. It just auto-sets the bonus to 20%.

I'll retest, but I'm fairly sure everyone else is still right.

JoDiamonds · Mar 29, 2006, 07:22 PM // 19:22

Maybe it's merely that the highest bonus get's used, and damage penetration doesn't stack at all? Like Runes of the same type, for instance.

So if you have something giving 20% pen, and something giving 15%, it just ignores the 15% because there's a higher one.

S E Crusader · Apr 19, 2006, 02:53 AM // 02:53

This is a GREAT skill to use against the Undead. Try using this in the UW.